Well the ffrr isn't giving me many reasons to keep it in fact it's rapidly climbing to the top of the endangered species list

Last week flushed the gearbox..... dirty, but not a lot of metallic bits.

Then changed the torque converter, because the TCC squeals between 30 and 50 , but was OK 0-30 and 50+.

New converter fitted, took for a run the next day 22 miles of bliss, perfect gear changes and TCC lock up without a squeak

Drove back later, first 15 miles, OK..... then the TCC stopped locking at all, then the car was stuck in 5 th, actually that is incorrect I had reverse and drive, but drive was 5th only, would manually shift to lower gear but shot back to 5 a second later Limped home with the aid of low range Oh and the revs shot up to 3800 pulling off

Checked the oil temp when I got back and it was at 93 C.

I then had to scrounge another car, Thanks Dad, and have 3 days of meetings all over the country, so today is the first day that I've had to look at it in the daylight...... I thought that we might have nicked the oil seal when the converter went in and it was out of oil..... Leveled the car up and pulled the plug on a cold engine with it off. Nothing... low oil... went to top it up, I'd have been lucky to get an egg cup full in before it dripped. So I started the engine, did the gear select bit, and tried to get some more oil in wasn't having any of that Oh and the torque converter doesn't appear to be slipping as well as it should, feels like it's dragging, although it was ok when I started it, this is after a very short run to see if it's still locking up, which it is again, and I've got 5 gears back too

I am now at a total loss as to what to do, I have not got the funds to rebuild the box, which has only done 22K since the last rebuild, and I have a torque converter that is 'new' with a 2 year warranty, but doesn't appear to be doing what it's supposed to, but that still doesn't explain the stuck in 5th......  Yesterday I couldn't spell Engineer... Today I are one!
Inventor of the 'Guide-o-Matic automatic wheel alignment tool'
Former long term L322 owner, Up/Down graded to a Classic Tractor!

sorry to hear this Paul ,but i'm sure with your talents you'll figure this out..  ... - .- -.




Y. O. L. O.
.

Can't think of much to check... how about the electrical plug to the box... you can "sort of" get it in place but in fact it's not... give it a pull and check it locked home OK...

If not hope it's something else easy.... Pete
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At the moment I'm a bit stumped as to the cause, thought that it was a leak. The only solution that I can think of involves a gallon of petrol and a light The only bit that's changed is the torque converter, so that is obviously top of the list, but that wouldn't explain the straight to 5th  Yesterday I couldn't spell Engineer... Today I are one!
Inventor of the 'Guide-o-Matic automatic wheel alignment tool'
Former long term L322 owner, Up/Down graded to a Classic Tractor!

Will give the plug a prod But it was ok for 30 odd miles before it all went tits up, which is why I thought that is was oil related.... Got a bad feeling that it's going to end up at a tranny specialist, which will result in a rebuild whether it needs it or not  Yesterday I couldn't spell Engineer... Today I are one!
Inventor of the 'Guide-o-Matic automatic wheel alignment tool'
Former long term L322 owner, Up/Down graded to a Classic Tractor!

I couldn't quite work out from your post. When you started the engine and checked the oil level was it dripping out of the hole? The post kind of implies it but not 100% sure.

My 6HP26X needs the level to be checked with engine on and oil between 30 and 35°C.

No chance you got some water in there? I got some in my transfer box and it played hell with the LSD. Can only imagine what it would do to all the clutches in the box.

One other thought I had was if your oil cooler is working OK? Forgive my ignorance here but I think mine has a rad in front of the drivers wheel. If that's blocked up and causing the box to get too hot?

Did the oil smell burnt? ZF said in the oil changeover that if that's the case to return the box for rebuild. Ed

Hi Ed, the level's all correct, and it is new oil, the box was powerflushed on the Monday and the torque converter was changed the next evening, the car covered 4 miles max in between the oil change and the converter change. The transmission cooler is less than 17 months old, and was genuine, so I very much doubt that is at fault. And there is no way that the cooler is blocked as the power flush was done at the cooler return to the box, so all the oil has gone through it.

As Pete has suggested it's more likely to be an electrical issue, as the oil level is correct. As for this 30 -35 c bit for my car its 35-45 c and it was done at 35, however if you were to do it at a lower temp it would just mean that too much oil in the box and run a risk of it blowing out the breather. It shouldn't effect the operation of the box in the slightest, just likely to make a mess

I am rapidly becoming allergic to GM transmissions, with all their faults, they're not well suited to the offroad application..... the oil pickup is at the very back of the box, and the sump is biased to the front of the box, net result if you reverse up a hill too quickly oil starvation I dread to think what the end result of going down a very steep hill off road would be.... HDC failure for a start I can see me parting company very soon with the ffrr and it being replaced by something more suitable for heavy towing  Yesterday I couldn't spell Engineer... Today I are one!
Inventor of the 'Guide-o-Matic automatic wheel alignment tool'
Former long term L322 owner, Up/Down graded to a Classic Tractor!

Thanks for the clarifications.

Just to stand up for the electrickery side of things (being an electronics engineer and all) if there have been no codes then it doesn't feel electrical. The way these systems tend to be designed is that they will shout and scream when operating out of the norm.

I have nothing to back this up with at the moment but run with me for a bit. What about the situation where the electrics are working fine but the mechanics (or maybe sensors) are telling the ECU lies, I.e. causing the box to shift up to fifth very rapidly because that's what it thinks it should be doing? Can you plug in an IID tool and see what gear has been requested and which it's actually selected? On mine I can view those with the ignition on but not engine. It registers park as requested but I think from memory selects second by default.

If its not requesting the right gear it would point, for me, to stuff outside the gearbox, e.g. gear lever, or in my case Terrain Response. If the request is valid but its selecting 5th even when the engines off then maybe something to do with the gearbox ECU or mechatronics?

I have heard stories of power flushing doing more harm than good. Any chance that damaged something internally. Somewhere I saw it recommended if you'd had issues in the past to do a double flush rather than power (ideally get the box rebuilt though).

Just thinking out loud here.

TDV8 monsters towing and has a 6HP26X instead of a GM chocolate box

Mind you it was a 4.2 Isuzu that towed mine to Craig when I broke it... Ed

I can sort of see where you are coming from, I don't think that the powerflush did any harm as it was all OK after...And when I say powerflush I don't mean that it was plumbed in to a circulation pump, rather the return line from the cooler was disconnected and diverted to a can, new oil was added to the sump and then 2 lt's were run off with the engine running in gear, and then it was stopped and more was added until it ran clean. It was never run dry at any point of the flush.

Although I didn't get the Screen of Doom or the Death Bong, when all was going Pete Tong, I must admit that I haven't checked the ECU for faults.... having just changed the torque converter I assumed that it was the most likely cause, followed by an oil leak.... Now I'm beginning to think that it could be the gearbox plug arcing, so I'm attacking it with contact cleaner tomorrow, and I'll read the ECU at the same time  Yesterday I couldn't spell Engineer... Today I are one!
Inventor of the 'Guide-o-Matic automatic wheel alignment tool'
Former long term L322 owner, Up/Down graded to a Classic Tractor!

Right so the plot thickens...........

With the trusty IID tool I couldn't find any faults in the transmission ECU other than a voltage one, so I cleared them all down and went for a drive

The B'stard is sort of working again

No new faults, other than an ABS steering angle, PDC sensor and FBH, no engine or gearbox or transfer box....

But there are a few things that don't feel right to me.......

Firstly the engine really doesn't like being in gear at idol, feels like it struggling and it requires a lot more input from the brakes to hold it back, than it did..... however I'm prepared to accept that this could be the difference between a good converter and a worn one, but having said that the car was smoking (exhaust) at idol in gear after a while. Beginning to wonder if the new Converter is a lower stall than the old one.........

Secondly the gearbox appears to be favoring 2nd gear from start and this is causing a few moments at junctions, I did try to manual select 1st, and it went to 2 without any input from me, but the second time it did select 1st and stay there.

And the last issue is the box is very slow to change up, it's as if I'm still in tow mode..... this could be a result of all the towing that I've done and the ECU has learnt to shift this way. wondering if an ECU reset / re-learning session might not be a bad idea, but I couldn't find the start from fresh option in the IID menu.... So I's a bit foxed as to how to get it to unlearn it's bad ways.

And be kind chaps, I'm suffering from a massive bout of Roverphobia  Yesterday I couldn't spell Engineer... Today I are one!
Inventor of the 'Guide-o-Matic automatic wheel alignment tool'
Former long term L322 owner, Up/Down graded to a Classic Tractor!

Hi Miggit,
Only 22k since a rebuild and no warranty? Was the TC not replaced upon rebuild?

The GM transmission has its faults, but lasting only 22k is not one of them (lasting only 100k is :-s). It sounds to me like the rebuilder goofed... My rebuilt gearbox has an ever-so-slight slip going into 3rd gear, but that is it. And I have over 230k kms on the rebuilt box.

Who replaced the TC / did the flush? If you no longer have a warranty and are not on speaking terms with your rebuilder, have it checked by a reputable transmission specialist.

Sounds less like a reason for roverphobia than a reason for bad-workmanship-o-phobia

I can sympathize though. I usually do everything myself but last year (autumn 2014, actually), I had NO time and 2 bad injectors. So I took my TD6 to a highly recommended indy. They unbolted the intake manifold but did not disconnect all hoses or remove it from the engine. In doing so, they rattled several chunks of carbon loose (from all the EGR) which entered 2 cylinders upon restart, locked the motor, and bent 3 valves. So they replaced the head (after a fight) and when the RR came back it had a rod knock. Now the head gasket is going and I have to put in 1L of coolant every 100kms. I actually can't complain too much, as I have nearly 400k kms on the trusty RR. But I wanted to do both motor and gearbox on my own time - and completely rebuild both (the TD6 is our travel vehicle and outfitted for off-road, camping, etc, so i want to keep this particular RR. Plus I am stupid :-p). But, as I am pressed for time again, I have a used motor in a box in the drive.

Good luck - and keep us informed.

Steve 
RRC 2Dr, RRC 4Dr,
P38, and 2 L322s
(wife thinks I'm nuts - prob right, too)

Hi Steve,

Yes 22K from a rebuild is very poor, but, I have been towing 3 ton trailers. And due to their very un-aerodynamic design, I have been struggling to keep the car above 50, the the TCC has been in partial lock up rather than full lock up. And when the gearbox started to squeal under light acceleration between 30 and 50, it became obvious that I'd worn out the TCC. So I've fitted a new one, flushing the system first to remove any dirt left behind from the old TCC.

If I hadn't been towing the trailers that I have been, I'd have been back at the gearbox place shouting blue murder. But I feel that it's rather self inflicted, and a side effect of the work that I do.... Clutches never seamed to last more than a year, and even Toyota Gearboxes self destructed after a time Truth be known the towing is better done by a lorry, until it comes to putting the units in place... then you need a 4x4.....

If the ffrr had a bit more power, or a lower lock up speed, I recon that I wouldn't be in this mess.... and before someone comes out with TDV8, their fuel consumption would be in the teens at least I'm getting 21  Yesterday I couldn't spell Engineer... Today I are one!
Inventor of the 'Guide-o-Matic automatic wheel alignment tool'
Former long term L322 owner, Up/Down graded to a Classic Tractor!

Sounds like the cost of the fuel would more than make up for the mechanical issues you're having

The TDV8 is a dream to tow with

Well I'm now totally confused

I've spoken with the company that supplied the torque converter, and they recon that the gearbox is at fault....

I then spoke to a local gearbox specialist, who just happens to have a whole section on their web site dedicated to Range Rover / BMW X5 gearbox issues, they seem to think that the torque converter is at fault......

It just doesn't work

But they have said that it's either the valve block or the converter, so they are going to look at the valve block first, and if that's OK then I'm afraid that it's another converter, again , they don't make them like they used to, this one only lasted 30 miles

And then I will have all the fun with the original supplier to get my dosh back.... and after all that I think it will be time for a change....a D3 is looking very nice from where I'm sitting  Yesterday I couldn't spell Engineer... Today I are one!
Inventor of the 'Guide-o-Matic automatic wheel alignment tool'
Former long term L322 owner, Up/Down graded to a Classic Tractor!

Thinking aloud, could it be possible that the valve block is causing the TCC to be in a permanent state of partial lock, and it's become apparent with the new TC, whereas the old one had simply worn out as a result of a poor recon on the valve block that's now continued to get worse? It would fit but I don't know the valve block enough to be able to say if it's possible or not.  Visiting from DISCO3.CO.UK
Discovery 3 TDV6 Auto HSE Zambezi Silver